“Kathleen Mavourneen”

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14 comments on this post.
  1. Gary Smith:

    “Where is the spell that once hung on thy numbers” to me sounds like “enchantment of youth”. “Where is the innocent little girl I used to know?” In reference to since the speaker must now go to war, Kathleen has to suddenly grow up and face the horrors of a loved one going off to war.

  2. Herb Reeves:

    Longfellow uses “numbers” famously in “The Psalm of Life” to refer to the verse, or poem, itself:

    Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
    Life is but an empty dream!
    For the soul is dead that slumbers,
    And things are not what they seem.

    I think it’s clear that “numbers” is a figure of speech where a characteristic, or part, of something stands for the whole (synecdoche? I think). In this case, the verses of the song.

    He’s saying that the spell that her song once cast is gone. John Ciardi pointed this out in a 1966 column written for the (much missed) Saturday Review citing the 15th definition of numbers in Webster’s Unabridged:

    15. Poetry & Music. a. Regular count of syllables or beats, esp. with alternation of accents. b. pI. Metrical, esp. syllabic, verses or measures; hence, verses or verse.
    means the poetic verse . . .

  3. admin:

    Bingo. I think you’re right. Thanks.

  4. B. G. Berg:

    Am I missing something? It seems pretty obvious that the singer is standing at Kathleen’s grave, in tears because she (obviously) can’t answer him. It “may be for years and it may be forever” before he can visit her grave again. “Where is the spell that once hung on thy numbers” is his way of lamenting her lost beauty, now gone forever. It is really hard for me to believe there could be a popular song about a man bidding a tearful farewell to a women who prefers to sleep in rather than see him!

  5. Harry Newman:

    I believe that “numbers” was an old medical term used to describe the bones in the skeleton. So, “frame’ or “body” would be a synonym.

  6. David:

    I’ll add a couple of unfounded shots in the dark.

    1. Since the line is preceded by “sun” and followed by “star”, going with the theme of orbs, it could be a reference to her eyes. The 2D version of spheres, ocular or celestial, being circles. Or zeroes…numbers. The preceding line specifically pointing out the view which she is missing adds a touch of weight to this theory as well.

    2. As an alternative theory, fingers are also called digits. And digits also mean numbers. Adding to this theory is that casting a spell is often associated with wiggling ones fingers or hand-waving.

    Closed eyes and still hands both seem to fit the character of the song.

  7. Peter Berry:

    Hi, I think numbers mean her age or years.
    On thy numbers–On thy age–On thy years.

  8. Kathleen:

    We always referred to our measurements as our “numbers” I think it means her spell surrounds her.

  9. Kathleen jones:

    My nane is kathleen and my grandad loved that song so when I was born he asked my mum to call me kathleen he always gave me the full tittle when he wanted me he would say kathleen mavouneen come in I always thought that it was my full name

  10. Kathleen Mavourneen | The Telegraph:

    [...] For some interesting thoughts. [...]

  11. Lynn:

    I have found all these comments fascinating – FWNC is my ancestor – the story is that he sold it for £5 and it was sold on for £1500. I believe in later years he was paid £100 for publishing rights. Apparently Queen Victoria loved it and Catherine Hayes sang it at Buckingham Palace for her and 500 guests in June 1849.

    I’d never thought of the possibility that he might be singing it at a grave – interesting – I’ve often wondered myself why she is sleeping in!! And love Kathleen Jones’ granddad!
    I have just met with FWNC’s 90 yr old grt-grand-daughter and let her hear this tune – they thought it was a family myth (ie drunken ramblings)!

  12. Steve:

    http://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/broadside.cfm/id/16136

    This link will take you to a facsimile of the original song sheet. The correct words are ‘hung on my slumbers’ which although a same word rhyme makes perfect sense. ‘Numbers’ must have been a typo which crept in at a later date, and makes no sense at all.

  13. Dr. Edward Palmer:

    In the Colum poem, “O men from the fields,” who is Mary and who is the deceased?

    Thanks,

    Ed Palmer

  14. Pat Brennan:

    Bravo to Steve for coming up with the original song sheet (7/11/13 comment). Ordinarily, I would say such evidence provides the conclusive answer. However, I just can’t accept the idea that any poet worth her salt would rhyme “slumbers” with “slumbers.” Maybe there are examples of that kind of poetic atrocity around, but I can’t think of one–and particularly not from the nineteenth century, when rhyming was taken very seriously.

    Call me crazy, but I think it’s entirely possible that the printer got it wrong on the song sheet and that Ms. Crawford’s original lyric was restored in later editions. For one thing, what kind of later “typo” would change “my slumbers” to “thy numbers”? (I should point out that my Internet research on the lyrics produced at least one instance where the lyric is given as “thy slumbers.”) Having worked as a proofreader for a number of years (albeit decades ago), I think it’s more likely for a typesetter to mistakenly reproduce a previous line (or part of one)–which I’m theorizing the first printer did–than for a later printer to change a word or two completely out of carelessness.

    As I said, call me crazy, but the use of “slumbers” to rhyme with itself is more suspect to me than the notion that the original printer made an error that was corrected later. As for what “numbers” might mean, Evan is most likely right that it refers to Kathleen’s singing. Herb Reeves’s comment is also really good and supports Evan’s theory. The usage is archaic, but, then, the poem is 175 years old.

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