To the Word Detective: Do you speak from “facts” or do you gather your information and entries much like Wikipedia? Specifically you write:
“”But “pants” in the 16th century differed from today’s jeans in that each leg was a separate garment, donned in succession and then belted together at the waist. Thus it made sense to call these “two-piece britches” a “pair” of pants…””
In all the images that are on the web I can’t find one where the Pantalone character dons anything close to a two piece, chap-like, garment. As a matter of fact, any pantaloons image I find, antique, new; male, female, shows nothing other than a one piece garment. The only reference to a two piece, pant-like apparel item is, in fact, CHAPS.
You seem to speak with authority on this subject so if you don’t mind would you please email me a link to something that backs up your assertion on this page? I mean, if I’m wrong in my thinking, I need to stop disseminating false info. Thanks. Ray H.
beatrice:
August 12th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
I would to know whether they re a pair of shorts. Is right in Grammar or diction.
tambria moore:
November 18th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
http://studyholiness.com/doc/THE_HISTORICAL_ORIGIN_OF_PANT1.pdf The HOSE worn by men were at first two separate pieces, but as time went by, the two hose were joined, first in the back then across the front. It became necessary (and required by the CHURCH) for men to have a ?codpiece.?
As English is my second language, I have always been intrigued by the words ‘a pair of’… trousers, glasses, shorts etc. In my native tongue (Dutch) this is not used at all; a pair of pants would mean 2 pairs of pants, each with two legs ;-).
Be that as it may, back to the English explanation of a pair of trousers being two separate entities tied at the waist. I vaguely remember, many years ago, reading a historical novel where reasons for the separated trousers for men, and similarly, bloomers for women, were explained thus: Due to the dearth of toileting facilities and the voluminous clothing worn in those days, it was easier to just stand at the gutter in the street with legs spread apart and let go. (always with one eye on the windows above for maids emptying the night chamber!
I have not seen an explanation like this, anywhere, why?
Rg:
January 28th, 2015 at 8:20 am
Perfectly legitimate request! I, too, would like to see a citation for what sounds like a very reasonable explanation. I just visited another site researching this same question and saw.a lot of people blathering on about different theories of the origin of this phrase. Much of what they said sounded possible, but no one cited sources. Finally I just gave up and wound up here. This looks like a better place to get an answer, but what is wrong with a citation?
fervor:
April 13th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Pair of shorts
Pair of swimming trunks
Pair of panties
Pair of pants
Pair of blue jeans
Pair of binoculars
Pair of glasses (spectacles)
Pair of goggles
Pair of sunglasses
Pair of tweezers
Pair of shears
Pair of scissors
Pair of pantyhose
Pair of pliars
Pair of headphones
Pair of nail clippers
Pair of handcuffs
2 pairs of pantyhose are not 4 pantyhoses. :)
2 pairs of crutches are 4 crutches.
mike Perez:
April 25th, 2015 at 3:29 am
Its simple pants (named after the comedian Pantaloon) were two seperate pieces.thus a pair.trousers came into vocabulary because you tied them on time a troilus.
Robert:
May 12th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Ray: You do have serious issues. I researched this topic and most of which is found here is the most plausible explanation. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a way to cite the etymology of words because words and how they evolve in meaning and usage.
Vern:
July 23rd, 2015 at 4:32 am
@JD. It’s ‘V’ here. what Ray asked was a perfectly good question, one that I have wondered (occasionally).
By the way mate, it’s not “Geez” That refers to ‘Geezer’, I think you meant ‘Jeez’, as in a well known bloke called Jesus ;-)
Bobby:
September 10th, 2015 at 7:33 pm
When referring to pants, would one say try these on or try this on?
Bob Gotschall:
September 25th, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Bobby, I would say “try on these” ordinarily.
Further, while watching a behind the scene episode of one of the Brontë sisters books, the women who created the costumes pointed out that women’s undergarments consisted of two individual legging things with nothing else. Considering the weight and complication of the gowns worn back then that required other people to dress them. I think that a simple powder room break would have been impossible with anything fancier.
I have also been told that the “Can Can” dance was a lot more interesting back in the day because of this.
Dweeb:
September 30th, 2015 at 7:27 am
A Pair of Glasses is easy. Remember the Monocular? One piece of glass that was held in place, often by squinting. So a pair of glasses is just that.
A pair of binoculars, is also easy. In the early form, it was a telescope. The earliest binoculars, were two telescopes bound together, hence a pair. I know that the text Bi-nocular, already compensates for two, but that’s just the way English goes.
If you accept that pants used to be separate leggings, tied or belted together (and the need of a cod-piece to cover the essentials). Two leggings (or pantaloons, as discussed above), simply became pants, and two tied together, is a pair of pants.
Panties in earlier form used to be bloomers, which had short legs attached to them. So it’s an easy reach to a pair of panties, following the lead of a pair of pants.
Tweezers, shears and scissors follow the rule that two like items are required to make them work. Also “scissors” probably stem from a Latin word “cisoria” which means a cutting instrument. Thus when two cutting instruments are connected to get leverage, you have a pair.
Remember, not everything had an exact translation when moving from one language to another. Also travelers would find an item used by a different culture, learn what the “foreigners” called the item, and bring it back home. What they called the item when the returned home, could easily have been slang, or a word that was closest in meaning. English is a hodge-podge of many other languages.
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Ray Hathaway:
May 27th, 2011 at 10:33 am
To the Word Detective: Do you speak from “facts” or do you gather your information and entries much like Wikipedia? Specifically you write:
“”But “pants” in the 16th century differed from today’s jeans in that each leg was a separate garment, donned in succession and then belted together at the waist. Thus it made sense to call these “two-piece britches” a “pair” of pants…””
In all the images that are on the web I can’t find one where the Pantalone character dons anything close to a two piece, chap-like, garment. As a matter of fact, any pantaloons image I find, antique, new; male, female, shows nothing other than a one piece garment. The only reference to a two piece, pant-like apparel item is, in fact, CHAPS.
You seem to speak with authority on this subject so if you don’t mind would you please email me a link to something that backs up your assertion on this page? I mean, if I’m wrong in my thinking, I need to stop disseminating false info. Thanks. Ray H.
beatrice:
August 12th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
I would to know whether they re a pair of shorts. Is right in Grammar or diction.
tambria moore:
November 18th, 2012 at 9:35 pm
http://studyholiness.com/doc/THE_HISTORICAL_ORIGIN_OF_PANT1.pdf The HOSE worn by men were at first two separate pieces, but as time went by, the two hose were joined, first in the back then across the front. It became necessary (and required by the CHURCH) for men to have a ?codpiece.?
Fleur:
November 24th, 2013 at 12:01 am
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=pantaloons
JD:
February 22nd, 2014 at 3:28 am
Ray – Get a life. Geez dude.
Emma:
September 19th, 2014 at 5:01 am
As English is my second language, I have always been intrigued by the words ‘a pair of’… trousers, glasses, shorts etc. In my native tongue (Dutch) this is not used at all; a pair of pants would mean 2 pairs of pants, each with two legs ;-).
Be that as it may, back to the English explanation of a pair of trousers being two separate entities tied at the waist. I vaguely remember, many years ago, reading a historical novel where reasons for the separated trousers for men, and similarly, bloomers for women, were explained thus: Due to the dearth of toileting facilities and the voluminous clothing worn in those days, it was easier to just stand at the gutter in the street with legs spread apart and let go. (always with one eye on the windows above for maids emptying the night chamber!
I have not seen an explanation like this, anywhere, why?
Rg:
January 28th, 2015 at 8:20 am
Perfectly legitimate request! I, too, would like to see a citation for what sounds like a very reasonable explanation. I just visited another site researching this same question and saw.a lot of people blathering on about different theories of the origin of this phrase. Much of what they said sounded possible, but no one cited sources. Finally I just gave up and wound up here. This looks like a better place to get an answer, but what is wrong with a citation?
fervor:
April 13th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Pair of shorts
Pair of swimming trunks
Pair of panties
Pair of pants
Pair of blue jeans
Pair of binoculars
Pair of glasses (spectacles)
Pair of goggles
Pair of sunglasses
Pair of tweezers
Pair of shears
Pair of scissors
Pair of pantyhose
Pair of pliars
Pair of headphones
Pair of nail clippers
Pair of handcuffs
2 pairs of pantyhose are not 4 pantyhoses. :)
2 pairs of crutches are 4 crutches.
mike Perez:
April 25th, 2015 at 3:29 am
Its simple pants (named after the comedian Pantaloon) were two seperate pieces.thus a pair.trousers came into vocabulary because you tied them on time a troilus.
Robert:
May 12th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Ray: You do have serious issues. I researched this topic and most of which is found here is the most plausible explanation. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a way to cite the etymology of words because words and how they evolve in meaning and usage.
Vern:
July 23rd, 2015 at 4:32 am
@JD. It’s ‘V’ here. what Ray asked was a perfectly good question, one that I have wondered (occasionally).
By the way mate, it’s not “Geez” That refers to ‘Geezer’, I think you meant ‘Jeez’, as in a well known bloke called Jesus ;-)
Bobby:
September 10th, 2015 at 7:33 pm
When referring to pants, would one say try these on or try this on?
Bob Gotschall:
September 25th, 2015 at 9:10 pm
Bobby, I would say “try on these” ordinarily.
Further, while watching a behind the scene episode of one of the Brontë sisters books, the women who created the costumes pointed out that women’s undergarments consisted of two individual legging things with nothing else. Considering the weight and complication of the gowns worn back then that required other people to dress them. I think that a simple powder room break would have been impossible with anything fancier.
I have also been told that the “Can Can” dance was a lot more interesting back in the day because of this.
Dweeb:
September 30th, 2015 at 7:27 am
A Pair of Glasses is easy. Remember the Monocular? One piece of glass that was held in place, often by squinting. So a pair of glasses is just that.
A pair of binoculars, is also easy. In the early form, it was a telescope. The earliest binoculars, were two telescopes bound together, hence a pair. I know that the text Bi-nocular, already compensates for two, but that’s just the way English goes.
If you accept that pants used to be separate leggings, tied or belted together (and the need of a cod-piece to cover the essentials). Two leggings (or pantaloons, as discussed above), simply became pants, and two tied together, is a pair of pants.
Panties in earlier form used to be bloomers, which had short legs attached to them. So it’s an easy reach to a pair of panties, following the lead of a pair of pants.
Tweezers, shears and scissors follow the rule that two like items are required to make them work. Also “scissors” probably stem from a Latin word “cisoria” which means a cutting instrument. Thus when two cutting instruments are connected to get leverage, you have a pair.
Remember, not everything had an exact translation when moving from one language to another. Also travelers would find an item used by a different culture, learn what the “foreigners” called the item, and bring it back home. What they called the item when the returned home, could easily have been slang, or a word that was closest in meaning. English is a hodge-podge of many other languages.
Sam:
January 14th, 2016 at 11:04 am
So why isn’t it “a pair of bras?”
John:
December 6th, 2016 at 5:37 pm
Ray, Hope your still interested…you can find pictures here:
http://www.greydragon.org/library/underwear3.html
I found it by searching “a peire of hosen”