Having often heard ‘hell or high water’ and ‘God willing and the creek don’t rise’ down in southern Indiana, I have to say that ‘hell or Hiawatha’ made my day. I might add that creek is pronounced ‘crick’ down there in Wayne County, while the native American nation has aleways been pronounced ‘creak’ in my hearing. So the ‘Creek don’t rebel’ theory is a bunch of hooey. Absolutely impossible.
Perhaps it refers to the great flood and it meant in an apocalyptic way!
AmericanHeretic:
May 3rd, 2009 at 3:40 pm
When I lived in Hong Kong, I read that the origin of “come hell or high water” is English. The crown would punish a guilty person by forcing him the reach into a vat of boiling water and pull out a coin at the bottom. The severity of the crime determined the level of the water in the vat. The term “come hell or high water” designated a strong resolve that something would be done regardless of the consequences.
Larry:
August 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
In analyzing the words, Hell and High water, I find that both are biblical references. Both refer to total destruction of the earth and man. Both are outside our control, and both will result if we press on in a course contrary to Gods Will. “Come Hell” refers to the second coming of Christ where the final judgment will occur in the book of Revelation. Those who have not believed in the Savior Jesus Christ will spend eternity in Hell. There is no escape once they face judgment.
“High Water” refers to the great flood in the book of Genesis. During Noah’s time, the entire world except for Noah and his sons rejected God. The result was a world wide flood destroying everyone except those who followed God.
So you may say “I will do whatever I want” and rebel or reject God “come Hell”. But God has shown the He is able to destroy everything as evidenced by “High water”
HAIL or high-water. These are both terms in regards to the weather. Whether it is coming down or coming up – nothing can stop me.
booboo:
December 4th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
What an interesting explanatin and I can see it also stemming from the idea that what may have also been in the minds of the individuals either in the Old West or the Old South, biblically speaking was the story of Noah and the Ark. I am sure back in those days (very early Christian beginnings or even prior)they didn’t have the expression in English LOL but there may have been some idiom in early Mesopotamia which alludes to a similar situation of being stuck at a crossroads, a raging river, flood or attack by some other race, tribe or religious group!
Whew! We had a ginormous storm last night that knocked out power to a good part of our small town. Thankfully no major injuries or anything like that.
Southern Woman:
July 20th, 2010 at 4:05 am
Like others, I have always understood the phrase to be ‘Come hell or high water’… However, in the defense of the person who posed the question, in a deep southern accent ‘hell’ is often pronounced ‘hail.’
pinq:
January 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
why to accept hail, when hell sounds more in tandem!
john buckner:
January 31st, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Hell OR High water
God willing AND the creek don’t rise
Applying Boolean logic these statements are negations of each other, i.e., in boolean logic:
If A OR B the “negative” or negation is:
NOT ( A OR B ) –> (NOT A) AND (NOT B)
So if A is Hell; B is High Water
NOT ( Hell OR High Water ) –>
(NOT Hell) AND (NOT High Water)
(Loosely equivalent: God Will AND Creek Don’t Rise
Likewise if C AND D the negation is:
NOT ( C AND D ) –> (NOT C) OR (NOT D)
C is God Willing; D is Creek Don’t Rise
NOT ( God Willing AND Creek Don’t Rise ) –>
(Loose Equiv) (NOT God) OR (NOT NOT Creek Rise)
(Loose Equiv) HELL OR HIGH WATER
It’s nice when literary references are mathematically correct
MIKE:
June 8th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Isaiah 43: 1-5
“Come hell or high water” the Lord will be with you??? Even if it doesnt fit the origin of the phrase, contrary wise it sure as hell fits the meaning of the scripture
unleashthefighter.org
Laura:
July 7th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Come hell or highwater derives from a particularly gruesome form of torture used in England. It was described to us on a trip to the London Dungeon. The “hell” was a burning hot fire poker shoved down the person’s throat, and the “high water” was the water thrown in after that to “put out” the fire. If you could survive that, you could go on to do anything…come hell or high water.
Derek Pearce:
February 25th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
The way I heard it the term “Hell or High Water” as in “to go through..” was derived from an English torture device. A cylinder about the length of the forearm with a bar that the prisoner would grip or be fastened to. Boiling water was poured in. Immersing the hand was low water. Half way to the elbow was middle water and the elbow was high water. So to vow to go though Hell (biblical Hell) or High Water was a vow to suffer pain and torture rather than break an oath or trust.
diklxik (figure it out):
March 6th, 2014 at 1:56 am
come hell or high water!
I will be there?
Ive used thr sane many years but only tonight really thought where from it does come, compaired to what i mean to be saying.
i for some reason thought it somewhat biblical.
With hell being the obvious, Hell the house satin built.
Or maybe just resides there, and we the people actually built by and through creation over time on earth?
And high water, is somewhat an obvious referance to flood, and no flood bigger than that of what Noah prepaired for and floated through¿
Allthough, this very moment i realize the near impossabilities of that occurance, due to the rate of time it would take for earth to absorbe that much water and the sun to evaporate as much as needed to allow Noah to reach dry land with cargo in tow, and not be any more than a bunch of meals providing his survival through the time floating aimlessly.
So hell or high water actual origins are WTFK
(w=who TF k=knows)?
for real the English language is clearly as mad (insane) as who created the conundrum, the English!
No pun included, riddle, or sense applies, its English and built to fit 2% of society with money and power to rule over the remaining 98% like master and slave!
think not?
Andrew:
October 29th, 2014 at 10:55 am
I didn’t read all of the comments to see if this had been mentioned, but without sources to point to, I assume upon hearing the phrase ‘hell or high water’ that the ‘high water’ part would be referring to Noah’s flood, as that is the only ‘high water’ that might be reasonably be compared to ‘hell.’ Noah’s flood was obviously a horrific event, whether you consider it fiction or nonfiction, localized or global.
Patrick:
February 13th, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Yes Terry! It’s a corruption of Hail and High Water. Just as “spittin’ image” was a corruption of “spirit and image” (looks and behaves like his dad for example).
Mad Max:
November 1st, 2015 at 10:47 am
Hello, my understanding from researching this phrase is that like so many of our phrases do, it originates from England and in this case from the early 1800’s, during the construction of the Thames Tunnel (the first under-river tunnel ever built in the world).
Although originally only supposed to take 3 years, it took 18 years for Civil Engineer Brunel to build the tunnel, who persevered despite “the hell and high water” conditions experienced and the many lives lost during construction.
Larry sellers:
August 24th, 2016 at 3:15 pm
It sounds to me that its a respone to “Lord willing the creek won’t rise”. If I needed to really do something I’d reply by saying “well hell or high water” I’m gonna cross this creek, river, obstacle, etc. The “hell” counters the “lord” and the “high water” references the creek.
Southern Belle:
October 7th, 2016 at 9:11 am
There is a very distinct difference between “Come hell or high water” and “The good lord willing and the creek don’t rise.” Come hell or high water would be used like, “I will get my revenge come hell or high water!” Whereas the other would be, “Sure I will be at your party if the good lord willing and the creek don’t rise.” Very distinct.
Michael:
December 6th, 2016 at 12:39 am
Is a year too late to chime in? (Yet another interesting phrase). Anyway, I gave this some thought for the very first time as did many of you. I do side with the original poster. I also side with the common phrase being “hell or high water” because that is in fact what everyone does say.
I’m reminded of a time (2010-2011) in which I was in a building in Arizona and we got the worst hail storm in the middle of an otherwise sunny day. I’m talking hail the size of golf balls. There was a girl who was looking to leave the building and said in the thickest southern accent,”Hell, no!” conveying she was not going out in that weather. However, her “Hell, no!” sounded exactly like, “Hail, no!” I remember this vividly for two reasons. 1) As if on cue I said “Hail, yes!” 2) She was black and I spent the rest of the day wondering if she thought I was making fun of her. My comment (to me) was clearly a joke, but to someone who just said “hell” without realizing it sounded exactly like “hail” may have thought otherwise.
So, I do believe the origin is probably embedded in the deep south somewhere and the common use is now just the rest of the world’s interpretation of the dialect.
Very deep thank you for sharing this information…very cool.
Don Michael:
September 24th, 2019 at 9:35 am
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned what I heard was the real and original phrase: “Come HILL or high water.” Makes perfect sense…whatever gets in the way of my progress and journey, whether it’s a hill I have to climb, or high water I have to traverse, I will get there…come hill or high water! Makes perfect sense, and proof that the internet isn’t always right… ?
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ShiftR:
March 8th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Having often heard ‘hell or high water’ and ‘God willing and the creek don’t rise’ down in southern Indiana, I have to say that ‘hell or Hiawatha’ made my day. I might add that creek is pronounced ‘crick’ down there in Wayne County, while the native American nation has aleways been pronounced ‘creak’ in my hearing. So the ‘Creek don’t rebel’ theory is a bunch of hooey. Absolutely impossible.
Stubborn in Alabama:
November 18th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
http://ngeorgia.com/ang/Benjamin_Hawkins
Satan:
December 10th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Perhaps it refers to the great flood and it meant in an apocalyptic way!
AmericanHeretic:
May 3rd, 2009 at 3:40 pm
When I lived in Hong Kong, I read that the origin of “come hell or high water” is English. The crown would punish a guilty person by forcing him the reach into a vat of boiling water and pull out a coin at the bottom. The severity of the crime determined the level of the water in the vat. The term “come hell or high water” designated a strong resolve that something would be done regardless of the consequences.
Larry:
August 29th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
In analyzing the words, Hell and High water, I find that both are biblical references. Both refer to total destruction of the earth and man. Both are outside our control, and both will result if we press on in a course contrary to Gods Will. “Come Hell” refers to the second coming of Christ where the final judgment will occur in the book of Revelation. Those who have not believed in the Savior Jesus Christ will spend eternity in Hell. There is no escape once they face judgment.
“High Water” refers to the great flood in the book of Genesis. During Noah’s time, the entire world except for Noah and his sons rejected God. The result was a world wide flood destroying everyone except those who followed God.
So you may say “I will do whatever I want” and rebel or reject God “come Hell”. But God has shown the He is able to destroy everything as evidenced by “High water”
The Answer:
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:07 am
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-com1.htm
Terry Barnes:
September 25th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
HAIL or high-water. These are both terms in regards to the weather. Whether it is coming down or coming up – nothing can stop me.
booboo:
December 4th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
What an interesting explanatin and I can see it also stemming from the idea that what may have also been in the minds of the individuals either in the Old West or the Old South, biblically speaking was the story of Noah and the Ark. I am sure back in those days (very early Christian beginnings or even prior)they didn’t have the expression in English LOL but there may have been some idiom in early Mesopotamia which alludes to a similar situation of being stuck at a crossroads, a raging river, flood or attack by some other race, tribe or religious group!
June:
April 6th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Whew! We had a ginormous storm last night that knocked out power to a good part of our small town. Thankfully no major injuries or anything like that.
Southern Woman:
July 20th, 2010 at 4:05 am
Like others, I have always understood the phrase to be ‘Come hell or high water’… However, in the defense of the person who posed the question, in a deep southern accent ‘hell’ is often pronounced ‘hail.’
pinq:
January 27th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
why to accept hail, when hell sounds more in tandem!
john buckner:
January 31st, 2011 at 2:44 pm
Hell OR High water
God willing AND the creek don’t rise
Applying Boolean logic these statements are negations of each other, i.e., in boolean logic:
If A OR B the “negative” or negation is:
NOT ( A OR B ) –> (NOT A) AND (NOT B)
So if A is Hell; B is High Water
NOT ( Hell OR High Water ) –>
(NOT Hell) AND (NOT High Water)
(Loosely equivalent: God Will AND Creek Don’t Rise
Likewise if C AND D the negation is:
NOT ( C AND D ) –> (NOT C) OR (NOT D)
C is God Willing; D is Creek Don’t Rise
NOT ( God Willing AND Creek Don’t Rise ) –>
(Loose Equiv) (NOT God) OR (NOT NOT Creek Rise)
(Loose Equiv) HELL OR HIGH WATER
It’s nice when literary references are mathematically correct
MIKE:
June 8th, 2011 at 11:46 am
Isaiah 43: 1-5
“Come hell or high water” the Lord will be with you??? Even if it doesnt fit the origin of the phrase, contrary wise it sure as hell fits the meaning of the scripture
unleashthefighter.org
Laura:
July 7th, 2012 at 6:55 pm
Come hell or highwater derives from a particularly gruesome form of torture used in England. It was described to us on a trip to the London Dungeon. The “hell” was a burning hot fire poker shoved down the person’s throat, and the “high water” was the water thrown in after that to “put out” the fire. If you could survive that, you could go on to do anything…come hell or high water.
Derek Pearce:
February 25th, 2013 at 1:32 pm
The way I heard it the term “Hell or High Water” as in “to go through..” was derived from an English torture device. A cylinder about the length of the forearm with a bar that the prisoner would grip or be fastened to. Boiling water was poured in. Immersing the hand was low water. Half way to the elbow was middle water and the elbow was high water. So to vow to go though Hell (biblical Hell) or High Water was a vow to suffer pain and torture rather than break an oath or trust.
diklxik (figure it out):
March 6th, 2014 at 1:56 am
come hell or high water!
I will be there?
Ive used thr sane many years but only tonight really thought where from it does come, compaired to what i mean to be saying.
i for some reason thought it somewhat biblical.
With hell being the obvious, Hell the house satin built.
Or maybe just resides there, and we the people actually built by and through creation over time on earth?
And high water, is somewhat an obvious referance to flood, and no flood bigger than that of what Noah prepaired for and floated through¿
Allthough, this very moment i realize the near impossabilities of that occurance, due to the rate of time it would take for earth to absorbe that much water and the sun to evaporate as much as needed to allow Noah to reach dry land with cargo in tow, and not be any more than a bunch of meals providing his survival through the time floating aimlessly.
So hell or high water actual origins are WTFK
(w=who TF k=knows)?
for real the English language is clearly as mad (insane) as who created the conundrum, the English!
No pun included, riddle, or sense applies, its English and built to fit 2% of society with money and power to rule over the remaining 98% like master and slave!
think not?
Andrew:
October 29th, 2014 at 10:55 am
I didn’t read all of the comments to see if this had been mentioned, but without sources to point to, I assume upon hearing the phrase ‘hell or high water’ that the ‘high water’ part would be referring to Noah’s flood, as that is the only ‘high water’ that might be reasonably be compared to ‘hell.’ Noah’s flood was obviously a horrific event, whether you consider it fiction or nonfiction, localized or global.
Patrick:
February 13th, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Yes Terry! It’s a corruption of Hail and High Water. Just as “spittin’ image” was a corruption of “spirit and image” (looks and behaves like his dad for example).
Mad Max:
November 1st, 2015 at 10:47 am
Hello, my understanding from researching this phrase is that like so many of our phrases do, it originates from England and in this case from the early 1800’s, during the construction of the Thames Tunnel (the first under-river tunnel ever built in the world).
Although originally only supposed to take 3 years, it took 18 years for Civil Engineer Brunel to build the tunnel, who persevered despite “the hell and high water” conditions experienced and the many lives lost during construction.
Larry sellers:
August 24th, 2016 at 3:15 pm
It sounds to me that its a respone to “Lord willing the creek won’t rise”. If I needed to really do something I’d reply by saying “well hell or high water” I’m gonna cross this creek, river, obstacle, etc. The “hell” counters the “lord” and the “high water” references the creek.
Southern Belle:
October 7th, 2016 at 9:11 am
There is a very distinct difference between “Come hell or high water” and “The good lord willing and the creek don’t rise.” Come hell or high water would be used like, “I will get my revenge come hell or high water!” Whereas the other would be, “Sure I will be at your party if the good lord willing and the creek don’t rise.” Very distinct.
Michael:
December 6th, 2016 at 12:39 am
Is a year too late to chime in? (Yet another interesting phrase). Anyway, I gave this some thought for the very first time as did many of you. I do side with the original poster. I also side with the common phrase being “hell or high water” because that is in fact what everyone does say.
I’m reminded of a time (2010-2011) in which I was in a building in Arizona and we got the worst hail storm in the middle of an otherwise sunny day. I’m talking hail the size of golf balls. There was a girl who was looking to leave the building and said in the thickest southern accent,”Hell, no!” conveying she was not going out in that weather. However, her “Hell, no!” sounded exactly like, “Hail, no!” I remember this vividly for two reasons. 1) As if on cue I said “Hail, yes!” 2) She was black and I spent the rest of the day wondering if she thought I was making fun of her. My comment (to me) was clearly a joke, but to someone who just said “hell” without realizing it sounded exactly like “hail” may have thought otherwise.
So, I do believe the origin is probably embedded in the deep south somewhere and the common use is now just the rest of the world’s interpretation of the dialect.
Elizabeth M:
February 23rd, 2017 at 8:02 am
Love this, well written and very enlightening
Russell Rock:
May 24th, 2018 at 2:09 am
Very deep thank you for sharing this information…very cool.
Don Michael:
September 24th, 2019 at 9:35 am
I’m surprised that no one has mentioned what I heard was the real and original phrase: “Come HILL or high water.” Makes perfect sense…whatever gets in the way of my progress and journey, whether it’s a hill I have to climb, or high water I have to traverse, I will get there…come hill or high water! Makes perfect sense, and proof that the internet isn’t always right… ?